Glawster get together

edited January 2011 in Loudspeakers
Thought it best to start a thread for this after mentioning it elsewhere here.
I'm planning to have a get together (call it a bake-off if you wish) on Sunday 20th February. I'll provide lunch and beverages.
The theme is speakers. Jason (figlet) and his Audiovector floorstanders are confirmed. I'll have my Cube 1s. It would be great to have further pleasant company and perhaps some Royds...?
Ben

Comments

  • It looks as if I'm ruled out of this one.

    My oppo Mr Singh will be fiddlin' wiv me innards a week or so before and I'll still be in recovery mode.

    Have fun.

    Any word from Jason why he hasn't put in an appearance here yet?
  • Not sure.
    Is he aware...?
    He PMd a reply to me re. my get together, but I havn't thought to mention here to him.
    Ben
  • Yep. I e-mailed him some time ago.
  • Righto.
    I'll remind him when next I contact him.
    Ben
  • Too far for me Ben, Sorry!
    Have a great time though, and thanks for the invitation.
  • Would love to have popped along for this Ben, but it's a bit of a long haul down to yours from here. Have a great day anyway, sounds like it'll be fun. :)
  • edited January 2011
    Hi,

    Nearly set for the speaker gathering.
    So far 3 confirmed:

    Figlet - Audiovector Avantgarde.
    image

    Mick (not a forum user) - SD Acoustics SD1
    image

    Me - NVA Cube 1
    image

    Also one unconfirmed (Sony active hybrid speakers). I'm trying to chase that one up.

    Probably room for 1 more if any of the recently joined members would like to join in on Sunday 20th February.

    Ben
  • edited February 2011
    As we've had some new members join recently, I'm bringing this up to the top of the pile again.
    I can't track Treehugger down, so there's one place available for this speaker get together.
    As a further attraction Jason (Figlet) is bringing a production model of his soon to be marketed NVA TFS music computer for us to chew through after the speakers.
    image
    To confirm:
    Venue: Gloucester
    Date: Sunday 20th Feb
    Time: 11ish am - 6ish pm.
    I'll provide lunch, drinks and nibbles.
  • Thanks for the offer Ben, but with a 1 month old baby and living in Leeds it would be a bit much to try right now, but thanks again.

    Hope you have a fun day.

    Jamie
  • Thanks Jamie.
    Good luck with the little 'un.
    Ben
  • Cracking day! And the music was at most 50% the reason for the crack. Good chat and good company!

    Thanks to Jason and Mick for making the trip.
    Thanks to all of the speakers for getting my feet tapping. :-)

    In addition to we ludites, we had the benefit of the opinions of the most discerning experts, who inspected the designs throroughly...

    image

    Will write up some notes when less tired!

    Ben


  • I look forward to it Ben. Ingenious port wadding on the SD-1s there!
  • Good to hear Ben, these things are always fun.

    Be great to see some pictures.
  • edited February 2011

    Funny
    how much time it can take, and how much fun can be had listening to 3 pairs
    speakers. Mick rolled up at a little before 11am, and neither left before
    8.30pm. Fantastic day! For me, the main attraction of bake-offs is the social
    aspect. A meet up with the hifi peer group with which I at least, have little
    face-to-face contact.

    image

    image

    And our
    measurements show clearly that the best speaker is...

     

    As well
    as having a good time, there was a shared determination to balance having fun
    with making the listening as fair as was reasonably possible. Obviously blind
    testing was never going to be on the cards, but we did try to make things as
    fair as possible within enjoyable limits. Firstly, we used the same 9 songs (3
    from each of us):

    Jason
    (all computer audio files playing off an NVA TFS):

    Newton Faulkner ‘Into the
    Light’

    Michael
    Buble ‘All of me’

    Gwenyth
    Herbert ‘Italia’

     

    Me
    (all vinyl through Decca SG, Pioneer PL-71, NVA Phono 2 (twin PSU):

    The
    Quiet Boys ‘Roaring fast’

    Cymande
    ‘Anthricite’

    Ella
    Fitzgerald ‘All the the things you are’

     

    Mick
    (all CD through NVA TFS):

    Pat Mahaney ‘Imaginary Day’

    John
    Martyn ‘Big Muff’ (yes, ‘Big Muff’)

    Robert
    Plant ‘Fortune Teller’

     imageimage

    "Michael F***ing Buble...?!"

    Sources
    were into an NVA P90SA pre- and then on to an NVA TSS power amp. All NVA
    cabling were used (all SSP and LS5, except the TFS which hooked up to the P90SA
    via sound cords).



    Also, a dB meter to ensure that the volume levels for the 3 pairs of speakers
    were matched as closely as possible.

     

    So,
    after much setting up (good for team building) and some Tetley’s (both brew
    types) we got underway.

     image

    image

    I think that's 1-1 following Jason's disgraceful
    images of my arse at London
    bake-off show...

     cont...

  • First
    up, the SD Acoustics SD-1s.

    Mick
    paid £400 for his pair, and believed them to have cost £1200 when new (around
    20 years ago).

    We
    set volume by ear, and measured it as 91.4dB just in front of our listening
    sofa, about 3m away form the speakers (our ears were about 4m away from the
    drivers).

    On
    a visit to Micks’s house a couple of months ago, I heard Mick’s speakers. I was
    immediately struck by how accurately produced the timbre of high frequency
    sounds such as the plucking of strings and percussive strikes (especially cymbals).
    At the bake-off they reproduced sound with real zing. On one track, the way
    that the SD-1’s produced a cymbal and double bass passage was amongst the
    highlights of the day for me.

    I
    must have got a bit carried away as Jason turned to me and asked ‘so what makes
    a good cymbal sound’. I had to think about that for a while I was listening,
    eventually coming to the conclusion that ribbon tweeters reproduce cymbals in
    much more smoothly; also the cymbal rings more musically as opposed to going
    simply ‘tssss’.

    I
    also noticed that a Fender Rhodes sounded especially convincing during one
    tune.

    Bass
    was generally well rounded, double basses thumping tunefully. Sounds were
    generally well separated except in the most cluttered and complex passages.

    The
    only criticism that I levelled at the SD-1s was that I felt that the sound of
    the SD-1’s lacked a bit of gravitas in the midrange, and some sounds,
    especially vocals and snare drums sounded a little brittle and at times
    unconvincing to my ears. On a few occasions (e.g. brass crescendos) this
    characteristic, bordered on the harsh.

    Jason
    commented later that he felt that the SD-1s were sounded to him sometimes messy
    and difficult to follow.

    Nevertheless,
    the SD-1s put on a highly enjoyable show. Their ribbon tweeters and bass
    drivers performing especially well. For the £400 Mick paid for them, a real
    steal.

    image 

    Next
    up to the plate, Jason’s pair of Audiovector Avantgarde

    image

    At
    £5,500 (though Jason secured his pair at a knock-down price), significantly the
    most expensive offerings.

    These
    we set to 92.5dB, which was the closest match achievable with the stepped
    volume pots on the P90SA.

    The
    words that best described the sonic character of Jason’s Audiovector’s were
    ‘composed, proficient, consummate’. The sound was effortlessly silky and
    controlled. They sounded well crafted, balanced and neat. I wondered sometimes
    whether these striking characteristics could be labelled ‘too safe’ or
    ‘sanitised’, but to be honest, the Audiovectors controlled take on musical
    presentation sounded very much like what I remember music has sounded like to
    me when I have very occasionally found myself in recording studios. Even in
    passages with a greater number of instruments performing more complex phrases,
    the integrity of each sound was well preserved by the Audiovectors.

    The
    Audiovector’s share with the SD-1s the ribbon tweeter approach to high
    frequencies, and benefit in general terms from the same extended, smooth,
    rounded and realistic treble efforts. One could hear easily that the drummer
    was making real effort to strike the cymbal gently in one section, and then
    striking the outside of the bell of the ride cymbal in another. A real revelation
    to a novice drummer like myself.

    Having
    said that, to my ears, high frequency instruments through the Audiovectors were
    less prominent, than they had been with the SD-1s. Instead, the Audiovectors
    sounded as if it was using more current to power it’s mid range response. Jason
    commented that he feels that he enjoys equipment that makes the most of those
    sounds (including vocals) that are prominent in the midrange. At times vocals
    sounded a little thickened (even ‘boxed in’ on one track) to me in terms of
    lower midrange. Although I accept that that could well be merely an observation
    relative to the sound I’m used to rather than a criticism of the Audiovectors
    in any absolute sense.

    Other
    than my quiet  concerns about a ‘too safe’ sound, Mick commented that he
    perceived a hardening of the sound of vocals during louder passages. But,
    overall, the Audiovectors put on a splendid performance. As they were carefully
    disconnected, they left a memory of sounding ludicrously polished.

     image

    cont...

  • Looks good Ben, Love to hear SD-1s one day. Newton F & M Buble are  well mixed records...
  • The
    final effort of the session was made by my NVA Cube 1 (£1400).

    image

    (These
    we set to 92.0dB)

    As
    I hooked my NVA Cube 1s back into my system I was concerned that following the
    Audiovectors, and after a couple of hours of ribbon tweeters my speakers were
    going to sound dull and insipid, or worse, brittle and harsh. Well as sticks
    hit skin and metal on the first few tracks, there was a change in the character
    of treble response - those lovely cymbals weren’t as realistic as they had been
    with either the SD-1s or the Audiovectors, but the Cubes sounded fine, the
    overall trebble impression wasn’t to bad at all actually. In fact, as the first
    couple of tracks played their way through my little black boxes I was quietly
    pleased that they had never sounded better. Many thanks to Jason’s TFS on that
    one! More of that later…

    The
    sound was lively, well proportioned, realistic and no aberrant nasties at all.
    There wasn’t quite the same sense of composure and balance as there had been
    with the Audiovectors, but I wasn’t sure if the very in-your-face presentation
    of the Cube’s aren’t part of the reason that I have come to love them. I
    thought there might have been a hint of roughness or grain in the vocals that
    hadn’t been present with the Audiovectors, but overall I was relieved. I still
    liked their big, dynamic, exciting and musical sound.

    Jason
    was actually taken aback by the performance of the Cube 1s. Despite being
    involved with NVA on a design and business level, Jason has been discrete in
    his comments to me about NVA speakers in the past. As the first track finished
    he exclaimed his delighted surprise at how good he felt that my Cubes sounded
    (“I’m blown away” I think were his words). We speculated as to why my pair
    might sound so different to how he remembered the Cubes sounding previously.
    But, to be honest, other than extensive run-in and a fortunately positive
    relationship between the Cube design and my room, we couldn’t think of any.
    Jason went on to comment that the Cubes were throwing out an unusually large
    sound stage.

    Mick
    was again concerned about the hardening of sounds during louder passages, but
    we all seemed to continue tapping at least one of our feet.

     imageimage

    Following a disagreement over which speaker had
    the most accurate bass response, Mick and Jason square up on the mat...

    So,
    the verdict…? Well we all seemed in agreement.

     

    In
    absolute terms (though cheeky female comparisons are solely my own ;) ):

    1. Audiovector Avantgarde (Kate
      Middleton – Well bred, aspirational, sophisticated)
    2. NVA Cube 1s (Angelina
      Jolie – in your face, seductive, raw)
    3. SD Acoustics SD-1 (Gwenyth
      Paltro – strangely alluring, charismatic performer, if a bit thin)
      .

     

    In
    what-we paid value for money terms:

    1. SD Acoustucs SD-1 (£400)
    2. NVA Cube 1s (£1400)
    3. Audiovector Avantgarde
      (£4500)

     

    In
    new-price terms:

    1. NVA Cube 1s (£1400)
    2. SD Acoustics (£1200)
    3. Audiovector Avantgarde
      (£5500)

     
    imageimage

    Jason takes one of his necessary hourly Star Wars
    fixes
    ...


    cont....

  • I
    enjoyed all of the speakers, but for me the stand-out performer of the day was,
    as I hinted above, Jason’s NVA TFS. For me a real revelation. I’ll save my
    specific comments on the TFS for another time, but I am very grateful to Jason
    for allowing me to hold on to a model on loan. I am enjoying its company
    hugely.

     imageimage

    One
    final and rambling post-script to the bake-off…

    I’ve
    stated that I take great pleasure in the social aspect of these sorts of
    get-togethers. At the same time, regardless of how friendly and fun they are at
    the end of the day one is putting one’s ego on the line at a bake-off.

    Of
    course, the opportunity to compare and contrast one’s own kit with that of
    others, and even declare a winner, is obviously a key part, and attraction, of
    a bake-off. This competitive edge runs in emotional tandem with all the gleeful
    social smiling.

    Everyone
    present has put huge amounts of time and effort into their system, and, in many
    cases, their persona on internet hifi forums. Of course, no one(?) has
    consciously assembled their hi-fi and online reputations merely as status
    symbols, but, with substantial financial and time investment are all of sudden
    under peer scrutiny, it has been hard for me not to feel under a little under
    pressure at bake-offs. I’m not talking cold sweats and the shakes, just a
    nagging “what if after all this my system is really shit…?” kind of feeling.

    In
    fact, at all of the bake-off that I have attended I perceived several
    potentially tricky moments of unspoken social dialogue:

    1. In general terms,
      discerning where the group as an average is striking a balance between
      diplomacy and honesty when saying anything at all about the musical and
      hifi choices and opinions of others;
    2. Deciding whether one is
      personally satisfied with that balance.
    3. If not, subsequently
      deciding whether one would be more confident in being more honest, or more
      diplomatic (or at least as honest, with a sprinkling of humour).
    4. Making an appropriate
      response to people who are giving ‘too honest’ an opinion about one’s own
      musical and hifi choices and opinions.

    I
    am not pretending that this is necessarily a conscious process, or that the
    process is peculiar to hifi bake-offs. At the same time, I cannot accept that
    anyone with a modicum of social skills could say in all truthfulness “I just
    tell like it is”, unless they are trying to look big-‘un-‘ard. Different groups
    will find different balance points, but find a balance they must if the members
    of that group are to be made to feel comfortable.

    Thankfully, everyone at the bake-off in my lounge appeared
    to have similar levels of:

    • Confidence to be honest,
      and;
    • The social awareness to
      voice that honesty in diplomatic terms.

    So
    I felt that finding a balance was relatively easy and that everyone felt
    comfortable to make and take honest comments. Thanks Jason and Mick! Hope to
    repeat the enjoyable and informative experience again soon…

     image


    FINISHimage

  • Apologies for the disjointedness of that, and for other PITAs if you read through it.
    The write-up in its entirety exceeded the maximum number of characters for a single post, thus I had to post it in several separate posts. The pasting from a word document seems to have resulted in some perculiarities in justification and images.
    Thanks you for your patience!
    Ben
  • Thank you Ben, for sharing. A lot of hard work has gone into that, it looks as if you all had a great time.
  • edited February 2011
    Apologies for the disjointedness of that, and for other PITAs if you read through it.
    The write-up in its entirety exceeded the maximum number of characters for a single post, thus I had to post it in several separate posts. The pasting from a word document seems to have resulted in some perculiarities in justification and images.
    Thanks you for your patience!
    Ben
    Looks like you had a good day.

    I liked Jason's Audiovectors a lot at the London Bake-off show. In the larger room at the hotel, they certainly didn't sound overly polite, so maybe that's why Jason was enthusing about how they were sounding there.

    Thanks for your efforts posting all that lot, Ben. FWIW, I find the best thing is to write longer pieces in a text editor with notes where the pix fit, then paste the text into the online app (eg Audio Chews) and then go through deleting the notes and adding the links to the pix.
  • Ok. Thanks for the ongoing tech' support.
    I will go that route next time.
  • All part of the service, my friend ;-)

    How's the TFS, BTW? Can you start a Discussion about it? Or are you sworn to secrecy?
  • Hmmm...Audiovectors. TFS's's's's's...things are moving beyond me. I shall have to rob a bank.
  • Don't worry too much about opening your sheet (as they say in the cop shows). As I've said before, my feeling is that the Mac/Young combo has the TFS of Bake-off show vintage completely beaten. But Jason has had a few months to tweak the TFS, so maybe he has had a chance to catch up ;-) Who knows?

    The Audiovectors are another matter, but make sure you lift enough to move to a gaff with a conference-sized listening room to get the best from them :-)
  • Looks like good fun was had Ben.

    I remember those SD speakers.  Always liked the open baffle mids, £400 sounds like a bargain.
  • Ben

    Sounds like a really good day was had by all and that the Cubes stood up well against the opposition.

    Re Jason's Audiovectors I agree with Dave that they really shone at the Halloween bake-off room with lots of room to breathe. Understand your comments about their politeness at odds to the Cubes which are there to make a big and bold sound and sod manners !!

    Enjoy the TFS - my early TFS/Nexus prototype is very good and is the most 'analoguish' digital source I have heard or owned.

    Shame there were no Royds there - just to see how they stood up !

  • No Royds = giving the others a chance  :-D
  • No Royds?

    image
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